Moaning Monday - November 1, 1999

Top of the morning to you! It's Monday. I picked up a Viking USB 56K modem last week to replace a Motorola 28.8 that was being used on Keiki (the PC SWCNBD uses). I think I'm going to like USB. A lot. Disconnect the serial cable for the old modem. Plug in the USB cable for the new. Win98 recognizes that the modem is now connected and asks for the drivers diskette. Pop the diskette in and press enter and Bob's your father's brother. The lights on the modem come on and it's ready to go. Way Cool. BTW, this Viking is the same company that makes memory chips. Recommended.

As soon as I find a good scanner with a USB interface I'll by one (anyone out there with any suggestions?). I don't know if all peripherals will work this well, but so far so good.

No sooner asked than answered! This in from Richard Jobity:

Hi. I got on to your page through a link on http://216.102.91.55/bpages/current.html (BPB Graffiti). Your site makes for great reading, along with the other tech journals, such as Dr. Pournelle's.

I haven't yet heard anyone say bad things about Acer USB scanners. HP, as always, are supposed to be quite reliable. Lot of complaints about Umax, though.
Just my $0.02.

Thanks to Mr. Jobity for the kind words (and to Brian for the mention on his site - hopefully he doesn't regret it!) and information. I've been looking (read that drooling) at HP . But PCMag.net recently did a review of scanners and chose the Visioneer OneTouch 760 and the Epson Perfection 636/636/U. I'll have to check out our local CompUSA and see what they look like. As an aside, it is an honor to be mentioned in the same sentence as Dr. Pournelle. That makes my day!

I figured I might get a response from somebody regarding my misadventures with Linux. And sure 'nuf, this in from my friend Brian. He says:

> So the moral of the story my children is that you can fool some
> of the people all of time, and all of the people some of the time,
> but Linux, as a replacement for Windows, has no clothes.

The faithful would have you drawn and quartered. The pragmatic would say, "OK, then don't use it. Stick with a system subject to viruses and the BSOD and the MS upgrade cycle." The strange (including myself) would stand at the podium at the UN, pounding my shoe on the desk and shouting odd and incoherent things :).

So you purchased and installed Caldera OL2.2, huh? Why back a revision level? The version that has a "good" installation rep is 2.3 (the current rev). I am running RH6.0 (haven't seen a need to upgrade to 6.1), X, KDE, Netscape 4.7, WordPerfect8.0, StarOffice5.1, Apache, Sendmail, etc. On a 233MHz PII, 128K ram, SoundBlaster, Creative Riva TNT 16M, tape backup, cdrom, floppy, 5G HD, of which 2.5 G is in use. It all worked (except for sound) on initial installation. Certainly Linux is not vying for king of the desktop, yet. Yet. But things are improving. I am quite happy with Linux as a desktop environment.

Clearly it is still a YMMV product. But I have not been fooled, and I am happy. --

regards,
Brian Bilbrey

Hey Brian! Lighten up a bit. All I was saying was that Linux, or perhaps more to the point, many applications that run on Linux, put forth as replacements for MS products, are not ready for prime time (not that Win apps are). I think Linux apps will eventually get there. And I hope they get there soon because it's better for everyone when there are two strong applications butting head-to-head. Or as they say; "Competition improves the breed."

But as you noted on your own site, applications such as Netscape lockup on a regular basis under Linux. That's not to say that applications for Windows such as Opera 3.60 (which is the browser I use the most) don't lock up on a regular basis because they do. But again, the point is that applications on Linux do that also. And to the extent that they do, the question becomes why change to something else when you have the same problems?

Is Linux better as a network operating system? I don't know for sure because that's not what I was using it for. People who know more than I on this point say that it is. If so, this is great because it gives competition to Windows NT. But I was looking at it from the standpoint of a desktop OS.

As far as installing 2.2 rather than 2.3. Well, at the time I got it, which is a couple of months ago, that's all there was. I would also note that at the time, it was hailed as the easiest install of all distributions. And after seeing a few other distributions I would agree that it is. Notwithstanding that, KDE, sound support, and kppp did not work out of the box.

Compare this with Win98, which out of the box, had all of those things identified, configured, and running without my having to do anything. Does that make Windows a huge program? Absolutely. Does that mean that Windows is therefore prone to bugs? Absolutely. But the chief alternatives - Linux and MacOS seem to be also.

And while I enjoyed working with Linux as an end in itself, at the end of the day, I still need to get my work done. And frankly, I don't care what operating system I am using to do that (heresy you say!). I just want to get my work done and get out the door at closing time...

So, the bottom line is, if you can get your work done better using Linux than you can using Windows, MacOS, BeOS, etc. then by all means continue to do so! I admire your pioneer attitude and your willingness to take on new challenges. As for me, I hate to have to learn a new operating system only to have similar problems to what I had before (sigh).

Thanks for your views and thanks for taking the time to check out my site. Aloha!

And now Tom weighs in with additional information and views about Linux (does it seem like I'm being daynotes ganged-up on? (grin)). First my email to him and then his response:

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Seto [mailto:mail@seto.org]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 4:31 PM
To: tom@syroidmanor.com
Subject: Linux and other Sharp Objects

Hey Tom!

I don't get a chance to check out all of the daynote pages so I'm sorry I didn't read your comments on my experiences with Linux until Brian emailed me about it. First, thanks for taking a look at my site. Someday, maybe I will attain the status of the august group known as daynoters. But for now, I just do the best that I can with the time that I have - shuffle shuffle (since I actually have a day job that pays the bills - well, mostly. Bills seem to breed at night faster than I can work...sigh).

And before I start, may I also offer my deepest condolences to the family and friends of Indy car driver Greg Moore. I watched with horror the replays of his shunt. One only hopes that an in-depth finite analysis of the crash will be done and perhaps, changes in the roll cage or other areas of the chassis can be made so that this does not occur again.

With that, I've sharpened my number two pencil and note the following: Linux 2.3 shipped on 9/13/99. I will plead guilty that I was and am not using the latest distribution. But I figured since I've been using 2.2 since at least June of this year (and perhaps earlier, the mind goes as one ages) I should report on that rather than something that just came out. Especially since during the intervening time, I downloaded and installed almost all of the approximately 39 bug fixes and security patches on the Caldera site which gets me at least 90% of the way to 2.3. But you are right, I did not use 2.3 and it could well fix all of the problems noted by me. The reason I haven't "upgraded" (in quotes because there isn't such a thing is there in Caldera Linux? You upgrade by copying your configuration files to another location and then delete everything - or at least that's what Caldera said to do...) is that 2.4 is rumored to be much better and here Real Soon Now. And since I didn't want to get locked in to an endless round of updates, each of which would require more downloading of fixes, I decided to pass on this one.

PR hype aside? Hmmm. I hope you are right when you say that the core Linux community views Linux as an alternative to Windows rather than a replacement. Given the flames coming my way, I'm not so sure that statement is accurate, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt (grin). OK, so if it is an alternative (which obviously it is), how good of an alternative is it? In my experience, not very. At least not yet. As I mentioned to Brian, I sincerely hope that it gets there, and soon. MS, and everyone who uses their products, needs the benefits that can accrue when there is true head-to-head competition. But it would have been a disservice to the tens of readers (you know who you are) of my site to say that StarOffice or WordPerfect 8 for Linux were ready for prime time when clearly they are not.

Finally, someone much wiser than I once said that users don't buy operating systems, they buy applications. In other words, they buy programs that will help them do their memos, spreadsheets, or business presentations. Most people don't give a rodent's derriere (forgive my French) about what OS is best. Just what helps them do their job. And that's all I've been trying to do since the first time I logged into a DEC PDP-11/45 in 1978 to use RunOff so I could write my terms papers...

Thanks again for the mention on your page and keep up the good work!

Greetings Dan, and thanks for the note.

On Greg Moore: I'm not sure the design of modern racing machines can be advanced much more safety wise than they already are. Roll cages are custom tailored to the individual driver, made of titanium, and assembled by the very best in the industry to incredibly exacting specifications and an amazing array of tests. On impact, the cage is designed to separate from the car itself and propel the driver away from the debris of an accident. A CART race has a team of some of the most highly trained physicians in the country seconds away and a helicopter on standby throughout the duration of a race. None of this, however, helped Greg one nit. Driving into a concrete barrier at 350 KM/HR is rarely survivable. Why the barrier was not protected by tires or another shock absorbing device remains to be seen and answered for.

And yes, I know all about bills too. They mutate in the night. I hate it when they do that, but rest assured, Saskatchewan is no different than Hawaii.

Sorry, my friend... I was looking for a topic of discussion and you just happened to be handy on Sunday (g).

Linux 2.3 is a vast improvement over 2.2 when it comes to installation and configuration. So is RH 6.1 compared to 6.0. I wasn't really trying to make excuses for Linux; merely to point out some of the cautions and caveats involved when one elects to go experimenting. Whether kernel 2.4 is "better" or not remains to be seen. Expect it before year's end.

mmm. Core Linux Community. Maybe I overstated my case. The core Linux community tends to be a bit overzealous about their passions. Let me rephrase that: Many of the people I work and communicate with every day who have deep roots in the MS way of thinking and wait eagerly for the day when a true replacement for Windows is here and we once again have a choice. Mmmm. Now I remember why I just said Core Linux Community. It was simpler.

And you are absolutely correct when you mention that people use applications, not operating systems. As a writer I sometime get lost in the underlying structures and loose sight of land. On the other hand, the stability (or lack thereof) of an operating system directly impacts my experience of the applications I'm using. And in the case of Windows 2000, the line between applications and operating system is no longer clear and concise. Which is one reason I have an avid interest in working more with Linux -- the barrier here is still sharp and focused. Which is one of the primary reasons why Linux remains the stable platform it is.

Finally, you are quit right -- WordPerfect for Linux and StarOffice for Linux are NOT ready for prime time. Close, I think, but not there yet. But as I said yesterday, perhaps this is not the best way to use Linux at this stage of it's evolution... And until both the OS and the applications it spawns mature, if you're going to play with Linux, you have to belly up to the bar with a bit of forethought to what you want to drink. How do you get this knowledge? Well, you can spend countless days reading and researching other people's experiences, OR... you can do just what you did -- open the box and find out for yourself. You'll find that most members of the daynotes gang use a mix of both approaches, seasoned to suit individual taste buds.

I could prattle on and on, but I have this screaming baby my wife just thrust in my face, and...

/tom

Quick Notes:
I see that Dr. Pournelle is still working on getting his mailing list sorted out (pun intended). Here's to hoping it works out and he writes a good column about it...

The Jennicam site has some updated photos of their namesake. Be warned that there is some nudity there so don't blame me if you get all bent out of shape (as it were). I can hear the hot headed herds heading her way now...

Other than a couple of charts I need to update, I'm done working on the proposed legislation for next year so I guess I'll see what this week brings.

See you tomorrow!

Top / Home

Terrible Tuesday - November 2, 1999

A bright Hawai'ian morning to you all! It's Tuesday. There's a couple of long discussions about Linux that came in yesterday. They are located above in Monday's notes. If you have the time, check them out.

Of course, a cloud just came over the system and if and when I can get this to the server is in question (sigh). It seems the IT boys are experimenting with adding an Ethernet segment to the WAN. This would be the first such segment since up until lately, this has been a true blue IBM shop. That translates into being a token-ring network topology. Leaving aside debates as to which is the "better" technology, I think its safe to say that the world does seem to be heading in a different direction (read that ethernet). Even IBM seems to have bitten the bullet (just TRY to find a Linux driver for an IBM token ring card).

All during the time I was experimenting with Linux, IBM would refer all inquiries about such a driver to private parties saying that traditionally, in the Linux world, private groups wrote the drivers, not manufacturers. This while IBM flacks were trumpeting to the world that IBM "supported" Linux (big sigh).

A lot of bad things seem to be happening in the world recently. Yesterday was the untimely death of Chicago Bears running back Walter Payton. My condolences to his friends and family. Farewell Sweetness.

On a lighter sports note, the National Basketball Association season begins today with 13 games. Having gone to college in California, I'm always pulling for the Los Angeles Lakers to win another championship. Whether Phil Jackson, formerly of the Chicago Bulls can help them to do that remains to be seen. The glory days of Magic Johnson seem so long ago.

For those who are subscribers to Dr. Jerry Pournelle's site, didn't you think his pictures of his trip to Japan were great? Not in the technical sense, but in giving us a glimpse of what he experienced while there. Worth every penny of the $36US/year to be a subscriber. For those who are not subscribers and have not visited his free site yet, please do so. The more people that go there increases the chances that he will be able to continue to do all those wacky and wonderful things with cutting edge computers and software.

A roller coaster of a morning. But if you are a reader of my page, you heard it here first, seven people killed at 8:08am (HST) in the Xerox building in Honolulu. The gunman was later surrounded by the police several miles from shooting site. ...Very Big Sigh. Welcome to the 20th century.

May they rest in peace. This is indeed a very dark day.

PM Update This very dark day has just gotten darker. We just learned that the husband of one of our employees was one of the seven killed. She is very young and had much to look forward too. While I was merely very sad before, now I am full of sorrow (and anger too).

Top / Home

Hump Day Wednesday - November 3, 1999

The events of yesterday are still fresh in the minds of all who work here. And even though I am still sad and angry at the person who did this, I fear that the calls for additional gun control laws will be heard. This, in the state with some of the most onerous (and ludicrous) gun laws in all 50 states. And yet, all the laws man has passed can not stop someone determined to cause harm to others. If it wasn't a gun it would have been a bomb made of diesel oil and fertilizer. Still, it was a very painful and sad day.

Much will be written about this incident. But I will say no more for now other than what an obviously distraught father of the gunman said; "I am gonna bring him another gun so he can shoot himself. I would tell him to shoot himself."

For those who want to read more you can follow this link here. Note that since the link is to the main page, it will probably not be there after today.

On a technical note, I've converted all .gif graphics files on my index page to .jpg, .png, or .mng files. Note that some browsers may not have native support for .png and, as far as I know, absolutely none have support for .mng. So, you will most likely see a lot of empty boxes or broken graphics. If anyone has any better ideas I'm open to suggestions but right now, I can't think of any. Also, if anyone knows of any browser plug-ins that display .mng files that would be of enormous help. Right now, MSIE 5.0 looks like the best browser for viewing my home page (hack, spit, snort) even if it doesn't display .mng files either.

Top / Home

There's a long reply to a short email I sent to Brian yesterday regarding the use of taxes to help those who are less fortunate ("there but for the grace of God..."). Take a few minutes and see what you think (as always, remember the link is correct only for this week). I admire Brian a lot, so pay attention to what he has to say. On the other hand, I respectfully disagree with him.

Below is my email to him. That is followed by my response and then his response back. Interesting stuff, albeit perhaps lengthy. But if anything seems like I'm preaching to anyone, please feel free to checkout the Quick Notes at the bottom of today's diary for other interesting, and less religious things.

Hey Brian!

Just two quick notes. And you don't need to publish this email if you don't want to.

1. The link to Habitat for Humanity came out reading as:

http://216.102.91.55/bpages/www.habitat.org

It should probably be just the www.habitat.org part?

2. Speaking just for myself, and not making any kind of value judgment against anyone, I would just note that I am a Christian. And that Genesis Chapter 4, verse 9 said; "Then the LORD said to Cain, 'Where is Abel your brother?' He said, "I do not know; am I my brother's keeper?" RSV.

While I totally agree with you that we should not be taxed just so that everyone has internet access (which is pure nonsense). I would respectfully disagree with anyone who says that we should not be taxed to feed the starving, or clothe the naked...Because as a Christian, yes, I am my brother's keeper.

In a perfect world, everyone would do what is right on their own and government would not need to get involved (because when it does it screws things up royally). But this is hardly a perfect world...

Aloha

My response was done on this page and then I emailed Brian with a link to it. You can read my response below:

And perhaps this is a good time, to define what I think, a Christian is (exeunt omnes stage left, all those who would be offended). Please note, gentle reader, that many people may call themselves Christians, but just because a pig may call itself United Airlines, doesn't mean he will be making the 7:45 run to Newark anytime soon. Rather, each of us is what we do. Not what we say we do or are.

And in today's time, it always seems to come down to money (I think it was Mr. Gecko that said; "Greed, for want of a better word, is good"). And yet, the more someone loves money, the harder it is to be a Christian (1st Timothy, chapter 6, verse 10: "For the love of money is the root of all evils; it is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced their hearts with many pangs."-RSV). Note that it says the love of money, not money itself. Money is a piece of paper that two parties agree has some worth to them.

But rather it is the love of money, over anything else, that makes it "...easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Luke 18:25 RSV). Does that mean all Christians must give away all of their money? No, just the ones that love it more than anything else. All God asked of us is to "...render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Luke 20:25). So pay your taxes to Caesar, and return a portion of what God has helped you to earn to Him as a tithe. Other than that, you are free to do what you wish with your money.

So, do you need to stand on the street corner preaching the gospel to be a Christian? Hardly. Preaching is a calling that few should attempt. Especially those charlatans on TV whose main function in life is to extract as much money (there's that word again) from you as possible.

Well, what about giving the beggar $5US so they can go and buy more drugs? Absolutely not. That is not taking care of your brother. But paying your taxes so a well run, effective, anti-drug program can help get him on his feet (and reduce the possibility that he will break into your car and steal your cell phone)? Absolutely.

Notice, dear friends (ramp up the sound of the organ here) that you do not need to be a Christian to do these things. Enlightened self-interest should be enough (if the drug addict is "cured", then he probably won't steal from you). But to say I will not pay my taxes become some people will misuse or waste it? No.

The "cure" for that is eternal vigilance of how your money is spent. And that means more that just voting no on everything. That's the easy way out. What it does mean is taking the time to evaluate the programs yourself. And then supporting the ones that work and not supporting the ones that don't.

I see so much hatred in the world. Because someone hated what he was doing he killed seven people. People with wives and children. People who tried to live a good life. And yet one person, filled with hate, ended all that. In the end, the most important lesson of Christianity is that we should love others as much as we love ourselves...

OK. Enough of this stuff. While the title of this diary is Misc. Ramblings, sometimes I think I ramble too far.

Peace and love to you.

Brian came back with the following email:

Dan - A couple of points

1. It is polite to respond directly, and perhaps also publish. If I am in a rush, I am not going to the site, I read my email and move on.

2. I don't see where fundamentally (pun not intended) we actually disagree. But, you do lose me if you quote bible at me. By that, I mean lose me. I don't visit sites that preach, and quoting bible is preaching (by my lights). I don't think you have done any wrong - I just choose not to listen to that mode.

It is your site and you should do what you want - but what you write defines your audience.

Interesting blend, though, references to the Bible, and to Jennicam, all on the same page. Best wishes.

brian.

To which I responded with:

Brian,

1. Thanks for the instructions on netiquette. I thought it was impolite to send huge files back and forth so I figured it would be better to just link to it and give you a heads up that it was there. My error. I will not do it again.

2. I'm sorry you think what I put up is preaching because by your definition, everything that you wrote about Linux is preaching (smile). I am not trying to preach to anyone. I am just trying to express my opinions on the subject. How to do that without quoting the Bible is beyond me. If there is a way to do that, please let me know. It's sort of like trying to explain Zen flower arranging without quoting the Buddha. And I am truly sorry I lost you by quoting the Bible. Some of the wisest sayings in all of history, regardless of your religiosity are there...

3. I agree that what you write defines your audience. What I want is an audience wider than just computer enthusiasts. Not that computer enthusiasts, whether Linux, Unix (which the is the first operating system I used in 1978), etc. aren't interesting people. Put there's more to life than just computers (I will be adding a link to a LA Times article on education and one to Minnesota Governor Ventura's State of the State speech).

Maybe this is just a reaction to what happened in the Xerox building a mile away...It tends to make you think about the big questions in life...sigh

But thanks for your comments. They are appreciated.

Aloha

Quick Notes
Interesting article in the Los Angeles Times regarding what is being described as the most dysfunctional school system in America. No wonder Johnny can't read.

Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura's State of the State speech is found here. I urge you to read it for the sense of optimism he portrays because he knows that if people get involved, we will not fail to make things better.

Top / Home

Aloha Friday - November 5, 1999

It's Friday. And now for something completely different. This in from Sjon regarding my experiences with Linux (see last weeks notes and Monday's responses from Brian and Tom above):

Dan,

Don't worry about using 2.2. I have that same version, for the same reason, I got it when it was hot, and I am struggling with it as well.

When every thing in your box is recognized it is plain sailing. If however the installation stumbles over something you end up in ( endproduct of digestion ). This is no different in Windows, I have at least two boxes here where I cannot get Win9x installed because the installation just crashes (95) or hangs (98).

If you have unsupported hardware Windows is very likely to have a working default for it, for example standard 16 colour VGA. Which works but is not satisfactory and you cannot go in and tweak settings, you have to get the correct driver somehow.

With Linux things are a bit different. Linux itself (the kernel) is almost surely to work but maybe you don't get X windows running using the defaults. This can 'easily' be corrected from a command-line so even if the silly X-manager is too dumb to present some workable default you can pull one yourself. Of course if a stupid installation program insists on starting some X stuff at boot up even when X is not configured you have a problem. Back in (biowaste).

I installed Linux (first 1.3 and later 2.2 from Caldera) on Hinja without problem, well almost. Now with Aria I have a problem. The difference : Hinja has a well known graphic card (Matrox) while Aria has a nameless S3 based cheapskate board.

Don't give up easy is all I can say. And of course don't experiment on a production machine.

Regards,
Svenson

My response back to him is below:

Sjon,

Thanks for the email and stopping by the site. Your email list many good points.

But I haven't given up on Linux. I truly believe that Windows needs competition because it will force both Windows and Linux to improve. I just don't have a machine I can use it on right now. Kane, my production PC is hands off. And even though I talked about installing Win2000 on it on Feb 17, I probably won't actually do that ("Never be the first in something new nor the last in something old...").

Keiki, my wife's (She Who Cannot Be Denied) PC had Linux, but she wanted it back. This after only using it for about six months. Some people just are not grateful for what I do (grin).

And finally, Mo'opuna, is kind of in limbo right now. I could use it I guess as a Linux box, but I think the parts that are in it would probably cause all kinds of problems. So maybe I should buy new parts and build a new one! Yes, that sound like fun. Now if only I can find some money to do that. Any ideas? Other than robbing a bank of course...

But I do plan, when Linux 2.4 with USB (way cool) support comes out I will get a copy and try again. Now if StarOffice or WordPerfect for Linux can get their acts together...

Aloha,

And now back to an earlier topic. John has some thoughts on "helping your fellow man". He writes:

Hi Dan

Use what ever reference material you want to aid in you discussion of your topics of choice. I find it just adds to the character of the page as well as tells me a bit about yourself.

As for the "helping your fellow man" bit I have the following to add. In some other countries the people we are trying to help are in the situation they are because the industrialized nations either took over their countries economy or their government wants to be more powerful in the world so forces the western economic model upon the country ( I realize this does not explain all circumstances, but it sets things up for the point I want to make). This has caused peoples that where once nomads etc. into what is a foreign lifestyle for them. This change in social structure is not easy to take and the social structure they are used to does not mix well with what is being forced upon them. Take for instance a once nomadic people who are forced into farming. As nomads it did not matter where they chose to defecate as they were not in the same place for long. Now they still defecate 20 feet from what once was a camp but is now a permanent home. The water gets fowled, and they do not understand what the big deal is when the aid workers tell them that they must go some distance form their home, dig a hole and only defecate in the hole.

What this all boils down to is that my point is that many peoples will never move beyond their current situation ( which may not be of their choosing ) till they can learn to adapt to the new situation which is very difficult to do. It may not be these people fault the they are in the position they are in, but until they can start to help themselves, all the help we can give them does very little for them. This I realize is very harsh, but it is a part of the reality of the world we live in.

Old world ways rarely work in an modern world, the old must make way for the new. Thus merely feeding the starving is not enough. More weight must be put on helping the people adapt to new ways of life and supporting themselves. I try to support education in all forms, but do not support feeding a starving man without providing a way for him help himself from starving or poisoning his own fresh water supply.

I probably have opened a dozen more points of debate trying to express a point of view.

Now that I think for a moment I believe my point follows in line with the point that you and Brian both made that you do not give $5 to a beggar who says he wants to buy food when you know full well that he will buy booze or drugs. Oh well this has been burning in the back of my mind all day and I had to get it out. If it does if nothing else it shows a view of what is happening in countries other than out own.

Regards
John

To which I replied:

John,

Thanks for the email. But I'm in what Dr. Pournelle calls "short shrift" mode right now. And in either case, I'm not sure I'm the most qualified person to respond. But I will note a few things below because you make some very important points.

I will echo what you say about the effects one culture can have on another when that culture is imposed on another. As always, there are both good and bad effects when that happens. And sometimes, the culture imposing the change does not even realize it is doing so. OTOH, many times it does and it is doing so on purpose. Leaving aside the debate on whether this is moral or not, everyone at least needs to be aware of the effects.

When these effects are made apparent, then as you state, the culture has some decisions to make. Do they try to adapt or do they try to resist, or do they try to flee, or do they just try to ignore the changes? The answer to that question varies as to the particular circumstances that the culture is in at the time. For example, these are the choices that faced the Hawai'ian nation when certain US businessmen decided that, with the force of US Marines, they would annex the islands and depose the sovereign queen. Some Hawai'ians advocated armed resistance. But in the end, the queen chose non-violent resistance and requested that the Congress and the President of the United States restore her kingdom. While there was some support by the President to do this, Congress did not. The rest, as they say is history.

The effects of that culture change is that we Hawai'ians have the worst health, are over represented in prisons, and under represented in the University of Hawai'i. OTOH, we are in the midst of a cultural revival which, if unchecked, will have far reaching effects of its own. But that is a story best left for another time.

Thanks again for your thoughts and understanding. You make some good points to ponder on.

Aloha

Isn't it great to live in a country in which the exchange of ideas is free and open? I am so impressed by the level of discourse that has occurred so far and am looking forward to more in the future. I hope it has been of some interest to my gentle readers. But, as is the case with some, you have thoughts on how to improve or correct my feeble attempt at writing, please feel free to let me know! As promised at the beginning of this quest, all emails will be responded to. And the check is in the mail. Objects are bigger than they appear. Your mileage may vary. The dog ate my diskette.

Have a Good Weekend

Top / Home